TV Programmers rate their own EPG accuracy
EXCLUSIVE: "I feel like kicking the TV in!" say TV Programmers about their own EPG inaccuracy.
- Published by David Knox
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EXCLUSIVE: It’s television’s worst bug bear: inaccurate EPGs that do not reflect the time our TV shows stop and start.
In a modern era of technical marvels why is it that our Electronic Program Guides are actually getting worse and worse?
Is it a deliberate ploy to mislead viewers and stop them changing channels as part of a heated race for our eyeballs?
TV Tonight asked all our network programmers to rate their own EPGs out of 10 for accuracy, and there are some surprising results and admissions.
Most advised that Live programming for News, Sport and Reality TV events was subject to fluctuating problems. Print guides are also susceptible to errors and late changes. Fair enough.
Excluding those declarations, here are their answers and the scores they gave themselves for 2014 accuracy:
SEVEN: 10 / 10
ANGUS ROSS: “I’m onto it all the time. It shits me!”
Seven’s Head of Programming Angus Ross indicates that aside from Live programming, “I would think it should be a 10 out of 10.”
“The EPGs are accurate all the time when I look at them,” he says.
“Sometimes shows like My Kitchen Rules and House Rules can take a long time to deliver and they’re delivering very close and you have to take the estimate from what is being provided to you by the Producers.
“But on the night they should be 100% accurate.
“The other thing is content can get added in on the night, but all of that should be included. I’d be very hopeful that the EPG is very accurate.
“Sunday Night might often contact me on a Sunday and ask ‘Can I get 5 extra minutes for a story that’s unreal?’ But that won’t have been reflected in the promo if Bones is (scheduled) for 8:45 and they ask for an extra 5 minutes.
“But again I would be hopeful that the EPG can reflect that.”
Ross says when he is aware of errors he tries to resolve them with his team.
“I’m onto it all the time. It shits me!” he admits.
“I want the EPG to be accurate as much as the viewers do, and if it’s not I’ll always try to be getting to the bottom of it.
“But some people, even in this era of fasttracking and things changing very fast, have this antiquated view that all shows should finish on the half hour. Why can’t a show finish at 8:45 if the content is compelling?”
TEN: 10 / 10
BEVERLEY McGARVEY “I miss the last 30 seconds and it drives me nuts.”
TEN Programming Chief Beverley McGarvey also empathised with viewers.
“I see it myself. I watch the end of something and I miss the last 30 seconds and it drives me nuts,” she concedes.
“If I ever do see that I do come in (to the office) and jump up and down!”
Changes to the EPG can be made until 5pm before they need to be sent to third parties to be electronically embedded.
“We would obviously be aiming for a 10. There is no reason other than in times of a late changing news agenda or over-running sport that you change it late,” she says.
“It is really important to us to not have the EPG wrong. I watch TV as much as anybody –actually, that’s a lie, probably more– but it frustrates me if I get to the end of a show and I miss the last 2 minutes. We absolutely do not intend to do that.
“Our brief to our team is to make sure that doesn’t happen. Sometimes it’s unavoidable and sometimes our News might have overrun by 3 minutes and the way that pushes the schedule out in the evening, or if the News Updates or The Project might overrun a bit, by the time you get to 9:30 you’re 5 minutes behind. And because we’re past 5:00 there’s nothing we can do about that.
“I’m not saying (shows will) be on at 7:30 or 8:30. It might be 8:33 or 7:35 but the EPG can handle that as long as you give enough warning.
“It’s not in our interest to try and trick people and to get them to watch shows that aren’t in the right place. It just doesn’t make sense at all. Any time that it happens it’s unfortunate and an accident. It’s certainly not strategic to get people to miss the last ten minutes of a show.”
FOXTEL: 10 / 10
BRIAN WALSH: “Our product is magnificent and its accuracy is undeniable”
Foxtel’s EPG is part of its iQ product which allows recording, Series Linking and the ability to add extra minutes for late-running shows, whether from Foxtel or Free to Air.
Foxtel Director of Television, Brian Walsh, says, “I can proudly tell you we have 100% accuracy with Foxtel channels on the Foxtel EPG. We work very closely with ABC, SBS and the commercial networks for accuracy.
“I think our product is magnificent and its accuracy is undeniable. We even provide opportunities for subscribers with the IQ to record-on from the programme they’ve selected. So if the programme does run over, if there is spill, we manage to capture that.
“Free to Air success and revenue is predicated on performance. ABC, SBS and Foxtel have a different business model.”
SBS: 9 / 10
PETER ANDREWS: “We want it to mirror exactly… what the programme is.”
SBS Head of Network Programming Peter Andrews says, “We take the EPG very seriously in terms of information for our viewers. We’re limited by certain technical capabilities but in terms of what the EPG will reflect we want it to mirror exactly, from a descriptive point of view, what the programme is, so that viewers can make an informed choice.
“So it’s absolutely vital for us and a mechanism to give the viewers a sense of navigation through our channels.”
ABC: 9 /10
BRENDAN DAHILL: “We don’t tend to stuff about.”
ABC1 /ABC2 Channel Controller Brendan Dahill says ABC doesn’t play the same games as Free to Air networks
“We don’t mess about with junctions (ie. 8:30pm), mainly because our programmes are largely pre-delivered and we don’t have advertising so we don’t stuff about chasing junctions,” he says.
“We tell our audience when our shows are on and we tend to stick to it. The reason I don’t give us a 10 out of 10 is that we have some shows that are produced in-week, and sometimes they deliver slightly heavily. So you look at them and think ‘I actually don’t want to cut 3 minutes out of that, I’m happy the way it is.’ Which means sometimes you’re a minute or two late getting to things.
“We try to box and cox within the timings of the night to try and make things stay as close to the billed, published time as we possibly can. We update our EPG at 11am every single day to try and reflect the reality of what that particular day and the following day will be.
“So we don’t tend to stuff about.”
But there are occasional exceptions.
“The only times we tend to not deliver on expectation is –and it’s part of network TV– when we have Live, dynamic shows in the schedule. If 7:30 is in the middle of an interview with Leigh Sales and Tony Abbott and he’s not ready to wrap it up, we don’t wrap it up. We keep going to the right out-point and that sometimes has consequences for the rest of the evening schedule,” he says.
“But we’re not intentionally stuffing about with junctions the way some of our competitors do.”
NINE: 8 /10
ANDREW BACKWELL: “I feel like kicking the TV in!”
Nine Director of Programming Andrew Backwell is another who knows how aggrieved viewers feel but defers to commercial realities.
“It’s frustrating. I record a show and you get to the end of it and you miss the last 4 minutes. I feel like kicking the TV in! So I completely understand,” he says.
“But when you have shows in the can and you know the running time you can schedule them correctly, then they come up (against) Live shows and everything ripples.
“If you look at Hot Seat and our News, the News starts at 6:00 every night. They are shows you can control the durations. With Live television it’s very hard to get a perfect ‘out’ from it. If we have The Voice and it’s Live… they might ask ‘Can we go 10 minutes over?’ I’ll say ‘Absolutely, let’s run 10 minutes longer.’ It might affect people waiting for the next show coming. But you’ve got a big show delivering serious ratings.
“I’m happy to stick with it longer. Those calls will be made.”
Backwell offered a surprising admission on how competitive the game has become, and how EPGs have been drawn into network ammunition.
“In terms of us putting dodgy information in the EPGs –I’m not saying it hasn’t happened in the past, and I’ve been guilty of it– you have to have respect for the viewers. I know everyone thinks we don’t. But we really try to,” he insists.
“We’re operating a multi-billion dollar business, we have to make decisions about the best way to run the business. But we don’t take viewers for granted and we do show viewers respect and try and minimise (changes) as much as we can.
“One thing that has changed over the years is the junction: the 7:30, 8:30 junction is not as important. If you look ten years ago each network would hit the 8:30 junction within 30 seconds of each other and shows would start.
“But now you have My Kitchen Rules running ten minutes longer, we run The Block longer.
“There will be occasions where we make mistakes, and occasions that we think it’s better to run a promo that says 8:30 rather than 8:39. So we will try and get it as right as we can, but we are going to make mistakes.
“Viewers are our lifeblood so the last thing we want to do is piss off people. They all keep us employed.”
NB: This interview was conducted before the start of 2014 ratings season.
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- Tagged with 7:30, Bones, Hot Seat, House Rules, My Kitchen Rules, Nine News, Sunday Night, The Block, The Project, The Voice
35 Responses
Funny thing is, you can look at the ABC, SBS, and even the local community stations who run to exact times. C31 here in Melbourne I watch at lunchtime for the broadcast of The Journal. I have noticed that every day it stats no later than 12:00:10 and other programs are the same.
If small not for profit organisations can get it right when their resources are so much tighter, then how come the commercial networks can’t?
Simple: They do it on purpose. Most of these comments about how they try are a load of crap.
Nine – “If you look at Hot Seat and our News, the News starts at 6:00 every night. They are shows you can control the durations.”
No, the news has started at 5:58-5:59 for years. Hot Seat starts at 5:25. Why does Hot Seat need to start at 5:25 when it’s promoted “5:30”?
@Bazza
I agree with EPG changes happening well into late night.
I think that Ms McGarvey has let the cat out of the bag, and the ‘ Third Party ‘ she referred to, may be jointly funded by commercial networks, with the second priority being to continually adjust/co-ordinate starting and finishing times ‘as best they can’, across all funding networks.
The first and busiest priority may be to continually co-ordinate the ‘ ad breaks as best they can’ for these funding networks.
And in collusion its either that or gee wiz the commercial networks are extremely lucky that such convenient co -incidences happen with such consistent frequency and accuracy?
It is absolutely no surprise that Ross’ and McGarvey’s self-assessed rating is as accurate as their EPGs. Half-truth’s, spin, and complete BS. At least Blackwell had the balls to mark himself down, altho’ not nearly enough.
I can’t speak for Foxtel but I’d give SBS a 10/10 as they are very rarely late (or slightly early). ABC was less accurate last year than I ever recall but it wasn’t often and it was never more than 2-3 minutes. 9/10 is about right.
I couldn’t give an accurate rating for the 3 commercial networks as I finally tired of their silly games last year and gave up watching them except for motorsport.
The amusing part was when they mention making alterations up to 5pm the same day as broadcast. What use is an EPG if you can’t set events at least a day in advance? It’s a load of BS anyway, I’ve seen them, 7 & 9 in particular, alter the EPG times on the fly all evening, as late as 9pm.
The other story about some programs being unpredictable is also rubbish. They would have their programming worked out *well* in advance, otherwise they couldn’t sell their ad blocks with any reliability, which is all they actually care about. The FTA networks are also somehow able to provide times for these in advance to aggregation companies like HWW.
Bazza on your last point they advised a time deadline for companies like HWW, which is why later changes are not reflected, and compounded on weekends.
Did any of these people happen to have their fingers crossed behind their back?
It appears so!
Angus Ross says, “Why can’t a show finish at 8:45 if the content is compelling?”
But a lot of the time it isn’t compelling, it’s just padding out of shows like MKR.
Also “they’re delivering very close and you have to take the estimate from what is being provided to you by the Producers.”
Surely the programmer should be dictating to the producer the show’s run times, not the other way around?
And none of the above explains why the printed program (e.g. Green Guide in The Age) reflects 7.30 Tuesday (again !!!) as To be Advised, when they – and all the followers – know that MKR is on at that time – Every week!
What the hell’s that all about ?????
@Tas TVcameraman
Re setting our PVR’s 20 minutes longer what about 21…23….25..minutes, and ‘why should we have to ‘ ?
What about missing the start of another programme on another network?
I do not find it amusing after all the above B/S explanations of what causes EPG inaccuracies, but not one explanation of how is it after all these so called late alterations and disruptions to running times, they all seem to very able to maintain co-ordination of multi channel ” Ad Breaks” across many networks????
Any wonder these people scored themselves so inaccurately, when they must live in La La Land.
” Viewers are our lifeblood and the last thing we want to do is (( piss off people)). They all keep us employed….. ((piss off people ‘ Literally ‘ )) is the closest thing to fact in much of this story.
No offence David, and in keeping with usual EPG time! ” NB: This interview was conducted before the start 2014 ratings period.”
For them to claim as they have, clearly displays they have no comprehension of what EPG should provide, and that is not an EPG that is most times just B/S, nor virtually/adjusted only minutes ahead of unprogrammed overruns, nor to be just left blank for entire periods spanning a couple of programmes, which to me is an admission they know that their EPG is wrong and they have no intention of doing anything about it.
@Taz TvCameraman re setting out…
Sometimes 7:30 pushes the ABC schedule out by 4-5 minutes for the rest of the night. I don’t mind 7:30 running overtime if the content is there, but there should be some flexibility in the number of promos to try to get it back to what the EPG says. E.g. Last Thursday’s ep of The Trip still had ~3 mins of promos before it started and it ended a few minutes after the EPG cut-off. ABC should have no excuse for showing promos when programs are already late.
“News starts at 6pm every night”
Not according to my Foxtel EPG, it’s 5.59pm and it’s silly games like that which make FTA TV so ridiculous. Recently I waited over a year to legally watch the final eps of The Big C. But GEM was running so late, even my manual add-on of an extra half an hour wasn’t enough to get only 5 mins of show before it cut off. “Pissed off”? Yeah, you could say that
I find it amusing that the programmers have not learnt to set their PVR at least 20 minutes longer to avoid not seeing the last 2 minutes of a show.
Any reality thing MKR, The Voice, The Block all run over now.
Back in my day we had set times even for live shows and we always started and finished on time.
Why they can not do it now could be due in fact to people not being able to tell the time correctly !
There are two separate issues here. Seven, Nine (and to a lesser extent Ten) may give themselves that score, and they are probably correct. What peeves the Australian public is that the EPG doesn’t match the promotion. The EPG may say that Winners & Losers starts at 8:53pm, but it has been advertised as 8:45pm all week.
ABC on the other hand are like clockworks. I can change that channel from the end of ABC 4 Kids to ABC News Queensland at 7pm, and get exactly the introduction of the news. SBS also seem to stick to the promoted times from what I’ve seen.
“One thing that has changed over the years is the junction: the 7:30, 8:30 junction is not as important…”
So who decided that? Certainly not the viewers I suspect.
I will give nine 5/10. Nine has so many overruns, especially with reality shows such as Big Brother, The Voice, and The Block. Channel 9 has overruns during summer ratings. For example, if House Husbands was scheduled to be 8:30PM on the EPG but the actual starting time was pushed to 8:38PM.
I agree with 10/10 for Foxtel. However for FTA definately not. I continually have to set programs to finish recording 30-40 minutes after the published finish time. Eleven have no live shows, so do not understand why I continually miss the end of shows I record. The inability to manage live programs is a reflection on the producers for these shows. You don’t see this happening on live shows in the UK, they finish bang on time. They introduced a penalty system in the UK in the 90’s whereby TV networks are fined for running late.
The only honest one is Nine. Seven and TEN both jgives themselves 10 out of 10, then how come some off their non live shows run late?
I don’t get that. I’ve worked on TV shows and it was always strictly 44 min 30 sec for a 1hr program and 22 min 30 sec for a half hr program. That’s why we didn’t have all this overrun rubbish years ago. Obviously times have changed.
“Viewers are our lifeblood so the last thing we want to do is piss off people. They all keep us employed.”
Quote of the year from a tv exec……..probably one that will get thrown back in their face many many times
Never seen an article with so much rubbish spouted. The conclusion from it is pretty simple though – programmers need to get tough and learn to say no. If producers are told they can’t have the extra 10 minutes, they’ll work to time and actually all the viewer loses it the filler, not the content.
Dropping promos can easily claw back time for a showing requiring an extra 5 mins,
I would give all commercial networks and their digital counterparts 0/10. Why? Because when on a Monday I put a show in my PVR to record at 10:30pm Friday, by Friday that start time is now 10:46pm and there has been not one switch out of programs or extended news to require delayed starts. As my PVR, as with most others does not adjust the times accordingly, I have to add an extra 15-30mins to every recording, which often results in a clash with another channel, which is what they want to happen.
It’s is all a bunch of lies from these guys.
“occasions that we think it’s better to run a promo that says 8:30 rather than 8:39” Yes, you wouldn’t want to promote a long winded episode, jut make us sit through it. That’s why we record The Block now with overrun so we don’t get involved in your games.
Fast forwarding, the ads, ‘up next’ that is 1/3 of the next bit usually, those slow-mo shoveling shots and Block wisdom can half the show length.
Now for a word from regional broadcasters.
“Accurate? I’ll have to go check that in the dictionary and get back to you.”
I give Seven a 6.5/10
Nine a 5/10
Ten a 8.5/10
Foxtel a 9.5/10
SBS a 9/10
ABC a 9/10