You can ask them that…

ABC producers Kirk Docker (pictured top left) and Aaron Smith (top right) answer some questions of their own on how You Can’t Ask That is put together.

These responses come via ABC:

30 episodes down, haven’t you run out of episode subject ideas?

KD — The show evolves every year we make it and each series we try to pick a variety of subjects that are relevant for the time. In series one we felt strongly about making an episode on Muslims because it was a subject under the microscope in the news that year. Last year Children of Same-Sex Parents was big issue in the moment, and this year Survivors of Sexual Assault and Priests are topics relevant for 2018. Then we pick interesting subjects that are timeless and universally “marginalised or misunderstood” — things like Eating Disorders, Schizophrenia and Swingers. Part of the challenge in coming up with the groups for a whole series is getting the mix right — there needs to be really serious episodes, some that are a bit more fun, episodes that are visual and some that are a bit taboo. We’ve made 30 episodes so far and there are a still a lot of subjects we’d like to do that we haven’t done yet — the list keeps growing.

AS — People ask us this question all the time, and it’s gone through my head a few times too. In series 1 and 2 the subjects were really obvious pillars of “marginalised or misunderstood”, but series 3 has allowed us to look in some other interesting areas. All the subjects still fit the brief of being “marginalised or misunderstood”, but sometimes not as obviously as other groups. A good example in this series is the episode on Priests or Ex-Reality TV Stars. On the surface, when most people think of Priests they see people who are in positions of power and very much forthright with their beliefs. While that may be true for some, it’s certainly not the experience for every priest. The priests we interviewed talk about struggle with relevance of Christianity in 2018, they struggle with their beliefs and struggle for acceptance in the broader secular community. They fit the brief of “marginalised or misunderstood” much more than I initially expected. I’ve never heard Priests talk so openly or candidly about their own experiences, so I think people will find this episode surprising. Likewise the experiences of Ex-Reality TV Stars are very different from what people think they might be. Fame is very much misunderstood and this episode does a great job at peeling back the complex layers associated with it.

How do you find the people who come on the show?

KD — It’s not the most exciting answer, but it all comes down to good old fashioned research. Honestly, it’s just a lot of phone calls, a lot of discussions with people, a lot of digging, being curious, asking questions and seeing where it leads us. We have an incredibly talented (but small) team researching behind the scenes and everyone brings their own skills and ideas to the table. It’s a very collaborative process and everyone who works on the show has equal input. Most of us have been working together for almost 10 years so we understand how we all work and what we’re good at. Once we decide the topics for the series, it’s a very organic process finding the people to come on the show and answer the questions. It takes a lot of time and it’s not a straightforward process, but we have a solid track-record of finding interesting people – people who have opinions, experiences and insights you might not have heard before.

AS — The mix of people in every episode is really important. We start by thinking about the groups as stereotyped groups, trying to find people who can tackle those stereotypes head-on whether they fit the stereotype or not. It’s really important we find people with different experiences, insights and opinions — we don’t want eight people who are all going to say the same thing. A big part of the series is about showing that people are way more complicated than a stereotype or a label. We’ve never said the people on the show represent the definitive point of view of a particular group — it’s more a case of saying here are eight people with different experiences and opinions, some you might expect and others are surprising. We are not limited by geography, filming all across Australia, so we really embrace the idea of finding people you don’t normally see on TV outside of Sydney and Melbourne. We tend to avoid people with profile, media trained spokespeople, or interest group lobbyists — they certainly have a valid place in other media, but our show is all about celebrating everyday people who speak from the heart not from a script. These people are generally off the grid and take a lot more work to find, but it’s worth it. We strive to include diverse voices in every episode — for us that’s not just diversity in ethnicity, but also socio-economics, geographic locations, age, sexuality, religious beliefs, ethics, opinions and experiences. And we’re really proud that across all three series to date we’ve achieved an almost parity split of male and female participants.

Aren’t you just exploiting the people who come on the show?

AS — No. Everyone comes on the show because they want to. We have lots of discussions with interviewees before we film, and three series in our interviewees know what the show is and they come prepared to answer the hard questions. A lot of people come on the show because they want to set the record straight about what it’s like to be them. They live in judgement in their day-to-day lives and many see this as an opportunity to be heard by a big audience and hopefully genuinely understood. The strength of the show sits with the people who front the cameras and answer the questions, so we try to build an environment of trust where they feel comfortable speaking honestly about their experiences.

KD — We genuinely care about the people we interview. We want everyone to be happy with how they are represented in the show and we never want them to feel uncomfortable with what they’ve said. Obviously, hours of filmed interviews have to be edited into the 30 minute show, but we put a lot of work into ensuring people are represented accurately once things are cut down. We’ve interviewed over 230 people across our three series so far and to date the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive from everyone involved. The more shows we make, the more people come forward asking us to make an episode about them and their lived experiences.

Questions on cards, just people talking to camera, filmed in one room -must be easy to make, right?

AS — The finished show is deliberately stripped back, but a lot goes on behind the scenes to make it look effortless. The look and feel of the show has been designed to highlight the stories and experiences of the people who front the cameras. Making a show that’s good but only consists of talking heads on a neutral backdrop takes a lot more thought and consideration than you might think. If anything, it puts more attention on the minimal elements of the show, so everything needs to be right — we can’t hide behind graphic sequences, flashy overlay, or dramatic teases or recaps. We film the show all around the country (this series features people from every State/Territory in Australia) because we think it’s crucial to include the perspectives and experiences of people all over the country. We film in any space we can — from studios, to offices, to hotel rooms and libraries — but you’d never know it. The set was designed to pack up into a bag, able to be set-up almost anywhere but look consistent. And we deliberately keep our crew footprint as small as we can to create a relaxed environment for our participants. Generally it’s just me behind the cameras and Kirk facilitating the interviews.

KD — We spend a lot of time building the rapport and trust of everyone who appears on camera. Our producers and researchers have extensive conversations with everyone before they are booked to come on the show. It’s not just people turning up unprepared and flipping cards. As the person facilitating the filmed interviews, I try to spend time with everyone before and after the filming to make sure they are comfortable and confident. We work really carefully in the edit to ensure people are represented truthfully in the finished episode, just as they were in the room on the day of the interview. And there is a lot of work by our graphics team (Graphic Designer: Shane Sakkeus, Graphic Animation: Hotel Lima) and music composer (Andrew Sampford) to ensure the final touches in the episode are right and add something new. The music and graphics are tailor-made for each episode — it takes a lot of work but what they add is really valuable to the overall tone and feel of each show.

What doesn’t make it into the show?

KD — Lots, but ultimately what does make it in the show is the essence of what is said in the interviews. There is so much interesting stuff that never sees the light of day, but that’s the challenge of making this sort of show. This year we’ve produced heaps of extra videos for online and social media, so for the first time we’ll be publishing extra material that’s not in the actual TV show. We’ve filmed and interviewed over 230 people across three series and we’re very proud of the fact we’ve never cut a single person from the finished show.

AS — Often there are ABC Editorial Policy and Legal considerations that mean certain aspects of stories can’t be included, particularly in sensitive or complicated episodes like Survivors of Sexual Assault and Former Cult Members. We work very closely with the ABC Editorial Policy and Legal teams throughout the whole production, even before we choose the episode subjects, to ensure the episodes meet those requirements while still remaining interesting, entertaining and informative.

Why isn’t there a host or presenter?

AS — This show doesn’t need one. As soon as you add a host to the equation, whether intentional or not, the show quickly becomes all about them. We want do the opposite and make our show all about the people you rarely get to hear from — everyday, but extraordinary, people without fame or recognition. There are very few shows on Australian TV that don’t rely on a host, narrator or recurring faces each episode. The familiarity and simplicity of the format means we don’t need a presenter to front it. But we do need continuity and care behind the scenes and that’s where our crew shines. I’ve shot over a thousand interviews over the past 10 years and I’m convinced that Kirk is the most under-valued interviewer in Australia right now — few interviewers put so much care into their craft and invest in their interview subjects without ever making it about them. There’s a lot ego in television, but this is a show made by people who recognise the importance of taking the back seat in order to let the interviewees shine.

KD — Plus the style of the show is to lean on questions submitted anonymously by the public, read off cards by the interviewees. Some of the questions are full-on — I can’t imagine anyone wanting to put up their hand to ask them in person and on-camera. I might be the one facilitating the interviews, but I’m more that happy to do it off-camera.

Have you ever felt a question was too offensive to ask?

KD — Sourcing questions submitted anonymously by the public means we get sent some pretty full-on stuff. Some are insults disguised as questions, others are just insults without questions. We realised very early on that the sorts of people who come on our show regularly get asked inappropriate or offensive questions all the time in their day-to-day life. But what they don’t often get to do is answer those questions and actually be heard. We didn’t really hold back with questions this series — we ask priests about paedophilia, we ask swingers about watching the love of their life get pounded by a stranger, and we asked ex-reality TV stars whether they’re fame whores. But obviously a lot of care and consideration goes into the questions asked to some of our more sensitive and vulnerable groups. It still surprises me how often at the end of an interview people will say “I thought the questions were going to be worse than that!”

AS — The interesting thing about asking offensive questions upfront and in the body of the show is that it means the questions have been answered before people can ask them online afterwards. Our show sort of works in reverse to most — we ask for the most full-on stuff first, address it, then move on leaving very little for the online debates afterwards. It’s really wonderful to witness people in front of the camera take control of outrageous questions, own the insults, turn the conversation around and smash the stereotypes. Obviously there is a lot of care and consideration involved in sensitive episodes like Survivors of Sexual Assault, Eating Disorders, Schizophrenia and Former Cult Members. We work with participants before, during and after the filming, sometimes with the assistance of an independent psychologist or other support, to assist them throughout the whole the process. Because we’ve built an environment of trust and respect, the process can be very empowering for the participants — at least that’s what they tell us!

You Can’t Ask That 9pm Wednesday on ABC.