Goodbye 8:30. Programmers agree Junctions are “irrelevant” in 2015
Exclusive: TV Programmers agree that standard TV times are a thing of the past, but EPGs should stay accurate.
- Published by David Knox
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- Filed under News, Top Stories
EXCLUSIVE: There was once a time when viewers used were able to set their TVs to their clock: 8:00, 8:30, 9:00, 9:30.
Now a show can begin at 7:40, 7:45, 8:45, 9:10, 9:35.
With so much advertising dollars at stake and fragmenting audiences networks are using every tool at their device, to flow audiences from show to show and minimise the risk of changing channels. It means a show can start anytime on any network.
TV Tonight asked network Programmers about the importance of Junctions in the schedule. It’s bad news for those hoping to return to old habits, but there is a quiet consensus amid a changing landscape.
“Kerry Packer used to phone up…. ‘Why was it three minutes late? We have to get it on time.'”
ANDREW BACKWELL, Nine:
Junctions are not as important as they used to be. I remember years ago when Kerry Packer was at the station, he used to phone up Michael Healy, who was obviously the scheduler at the time and say: ‘This show started three minutes late. Why was it three minutes late? We have to get it on time.’ He was very adamant that we had to hit the Junctions.
What I think has happened is all these junctions have now become very fluid. If you’ve got a big show like MKR, and for example it’s pumping along, doing 1.6 million and you try and start a show; when that show is finishing at 8:45, but you try and start at 8:30, to get the viewers to leave that show 15 minutes before the end, and come across, it’s impossible. You’re not going to get them through.
When you’ve got big dominant shows like that, you have to match the Junctions. If they finished at 8:45, the junction now should be at 8:45, so you’ve got a chance to get some of the viewers across to your channel.
And, vice versa: if we’ve got a big show on Nine, (such as) The Voice. The opposition wants to match our ‘out’ times. So it’s very hard, to get the audience to come and sample your product.
Once they’ve missed the first 15 minutes of a drama, it’s impossible to get them across. They don’t know what’s going on. You won’t get them in.
So, with all this such competition, these Junctions are very fluid now.
For audiences, as long as we tell them when shows start and end…. it’s important that we get the start of shows on the Guide correct, on the EPG correct, so they can record it. I personally don’t think the Junctions matter as much as they did.
“It’s important our audience knows where the shows are and we don’t disrespect people.”
BEVERLEY McGARVEY, TEN:
I think more important than Junctions is accuracy in the information. If the EPG is correct, if the listings are correct, if all the Guides are correct, then that is the most critically important thing.
Obviously we want people to know where our shows are. Obviously NCIS is 8:30 Tuesdays and always has been. If it’s 8:35 or 8:40 because I’m A Celebrity is live or running 5 minutes late, I think that’s ok as long as people know that and as long as we’ve informed everybody as clearly as we can and are honest about where things fall.
To tie ourselves into a corner where we can’t be flexible with a couple of minutes is difficult. But it’s important our audience knows where the shows are and we don’t disrespect people by moving them without telling them. We really try to tell people. But if a MasterChef producer says ‘this is an amazing episode and it’s 5 minutes too long’ we’d be crazy to cut those 5 minutes out.
It is difficult. (Other networks) do it because it works.
“We made every effort we could to be there, available, on those Junctions.”
BRENDAN DAHILL, ABC:
I think Junctions are largely irrelevant these days, particularly with the long-format Reality shows on 7, 9 and 10. You can’t predict when they’re going to finish at all. We don’t play fast and loose with our Junctions for no reason. The 7:40 one is only really on a Sunday night because we wanted to extend our News but we didn’t want to overstay our welcome. We felt the News was slightly bursting at the seams in the 30 minutes for the Sunday night so we wanted to create a bit more space for it.
Plus, some of the shows we play on a Sunday night, are only 50 minutes long which means you don’t quite get to the 8:30 Junction for our next show. And I would rather have longer News than have a filler in the schedule. So, for good editorial reasons, and for good logistical reasons, we extended our News to 40 minutes on a Sunday night.
When there was a regiment about there being a 7:30, 8:30, 9:30 Junction across the landscape − when things moved a couple of minutes in every direction, we made every effort we could to be there, available, on those Junctions. Now those Junctions no longer exist.
If a show delivers to me and they say, ‘It’s 32 minutes long and it’s perfect’ or ‘Do you want us to edit it back to 28 minutes?’, I’ll go with the 32-minute perfect version. So, it allows us a bit more freedom in terms of not having to edit shows back so hard. You can over-worry about a show and tinker with it too much.
So, we like to give the teams the freedom to deliver a show at the right duration for them, within a level of tolerance, because we need to communicate with our audience as well. Junctions are largely becoming irrelevant particularly in the world of time-shifting and iview and everything  else.
“I think that gives SBS an opportunity to be as consistent as we possibly can.”
PETER ANDREWS, SBS:
What’s important for us is consistency and we are aware of the competitive landscape in terms of a lot of the Free-to-Airs are moving over Junctions and running shows longer, and it’s really competitive. But I think that gives SBS an opportunity to be as consistent as we possibly can with the things that we control to be actually on Junction.
Some things you can’t control. Obviously with live content that tends to overrun, you have less control over that. So be it, that’s going to happen and you roll with that. But I see it as a bit of an opportunity for us to really drive home that consistent message. And one of the things I really wanted to highlight is the thing that we’re doing this year in 2015: that 7:30 on SBS ONE, every night, you are going to get the world’s best factual content at 7:30 every night. And it’s a destination that we want the viewers to know, starts at that time. So, again, it’s about being consistent and therefore, we’re likely to stick to junctions more than move off Junctions at this point.
“Our customers are liberated with technology that provides them with the ability to become their own Programme Director.”
BRIAN WALSH, Foxtel:
It’s an irrelevancy for us. Our customers are liberated with technology that provides them with the ability to become their own Programme Director. They can rewind, they can IQ and record, they can watch television at a time that suits them. So Junctions don’t have any importance for us.
What’s important is communicating where they can find their programming and what’s important is discovery. With all the great content we have on offer, the important thing is we enable and provide the opportunity for customers to discover all the terrific content we have on offer.
We are firmly of the view that Australians should be able to watch television with the rest of the world. It’s all about providing convenience. That’s the business we’re in.
(NB: Seven did not respond with a Programmer’s Wrap interview this year, when these interviews were conducted)
63 Responses
What a complete and utter load of codswallop.
We need a regulatory body here in Australia like the FCC, which will hand down large fines to stations if they are even one minute late in their scheduling.
I have a POS MyStarHD box – NBN is constantly 7.30 and 8.30 and 9.30 for their start times, which is just rubbish.
This is why I no longer watch Freeview – I’ll get my programs elsewhere thanks very muchly.
Programmers agree … ? Well, viewers agree that Programmers are idiots!
So much wasted time with pointless self promoting “teasers” and endless fake-reality-drawn- out “suspense”.
If I want to watch a show I always record it and watch it later … I never watch it “live” so I can avoid all the boring filler and adds.
“Ratings” are such a joke and so not relevant to our current “viewing” (recording) habits!
As a maater of habit, I add an extra 15 minutes before and after all EPG program recordings because of the chaotic programming behaviour!
I add 30 minutes after, to be safe!
Sometimes 30mins doesn’t even feel safe so I often add 45mins+ if possible especially shows or movies late at night.
McGarvey pays lips service to her dwindling audience by saying that it’s important not to disrespect them by moving shows without telling them, and that the EPG should be accurate. Does she watch her own channels? Yeah, I don’t either.
Seven, Nine, and Ten are all as bad as each other with regard to inaccurate EPGs and bumping/dumping shows at short notice. They’ve given me the short shrift and I’ve done the same to them. I don’t need to waste my time with them.
I’m A Celebrity is currently running over, albeit as a Live show. But over the years I ran the Late List, TEN performed much better with readers than Nine and Seven.
I can agree with this. ABC/SBS are usually the best. Ten is usually next. After that, we get to the rats that we know as Nine and Seven.
Thx David but I’m referring to recent times as the article is about the state of play in 2015. Ten had some credit from being the best of the commercial FTA networks last year (ie 4th behind ABC, SBS, and Foxtel) but they have used that up with variably inaccurate start times and dumping first run content at short notice to road-block their expensive failures.
True, a series from the UK also shifts start times on commercial teev for anything starting after it given that they are a tad longer than most of the US stuff, as mentioned before in these pages our household doesn’t watch anything until we have all the episodes of a series which could lie dormant in a external hard drives for years. The only irksome thing is the late, late starts after reality programming and setting a PVR/recording device
If an episode of something is actually great, the cutting of an extra couple of minutes will not ruin the greatness. It’s a poor excuse for tactical overrun that primarily inconveniences the viewer who wanted to watch something on another channel.
What absolute rubbish. Surley editing the constant “coming up next”, to help trim run time and avoid over runs isn’t going to damage a show. The epgs for ten have been bad this year with I’m a Celebrity going at least ten minuts over time. If I record The Good Wife, I unfortunately get the last eleven or so minuts of Wonderland. Then all of a sudden this week, Celebrity is finishing on time, whicj is good, but we didn’t know that was going to happen, so it mucked up my recoding of SVU. There also are still older people who arn’t savvy with managing the fluid schedule, so they are forced to stay on the one channel.
Having viewers staying on the one channel and not recording shows, is mission critical for networks.
David, I’m curious about if you have an opinion on this. Do you think the networks are damaging their brand with the loss of set time junctions or is it all par for the course in commercial television and we should just accept it?
A complicated question. We have gotten to a dog-chasing-tail situation. Networks move start times to try to plug a hole of fragmenting audiences. Viewers watch less Live because shows start at fluctuating times. The end result is viewers watch fewer ads Live, with increased PVR use and the power to zap ads. We also see shows being crushed because the competition runs over, such as Secrets & Lies. Healthy competition is great, but if Dramas cannot get clear air, we all lose. The EPG issue is a separate question. Programmers say if the EPG is accurate the start time is irrelevant, but data and monitoring has shown they still run over with pre-recorded shows. This is further conflicted by promos and print ads which indicate different times to the EPG, thus creating confusion. You have to admire Kerry Packer’s ability to build trust and a reign of glory as a result.
Your dog-chasing-tail analogy sums up the problem perfectly. Thanks 🙂
I’m a big channel Flipper, I do it during ads, I do it after shows. I cant tell you the last time I watched the same channel all night. I’ve just gotten used to working out where we’re up to on shows I’ve missed the begining of.
But in saying that I’m also one of those people who almost doesn’t bother watching Drama on Telly anymore, because it is always on at different times etc.
I think that Junctions need to exist and are not irrelevant! They are only considered irrelevant as Reality shows are used to dominate the airwaves and advertising. The late start times for drama is disgusting. I hardly watch any live TV these days I program drama shows for about 90 minutes,so that I do not miss the end due to overruns. I think the programmers are just being disrespectful. It is all about their dirty tactics to beat the opposition and viewers get shafted in the crossfire!
Its a bit of a cop out, I personally have never watched the one channel all night long and I may be in the minority or the majority I don’t know. The spread of (my preferred) programs across all channels and different start and end times every week is really annoying. It is like they are showing less programs on a nightly basis because of over running shows and showing more adds and adding another 1/2 hour to reality shows. I don’t mind going to bed a 10:00pm as some nights it is the case; but I’d prefer to go at 10:30pm. Why start a movie at 9:30pm (9:41pm) to finish past midnight. Silly
It’s all about them, isn’t it. That’s the biggest load of crap I’ve ever read. For the programmers’ information, I’d rather miss the end of one show than the beginning of another, particularly if I’m turning over to a drama where if you miss the beginning you’re history. It’s easy to find the results in say, MKR, or any other reality rubbish (if you’re really interested, that is).
What an arrogant bunch. Maybe if one network bit the bullet and reverted to “proper” times, the rest would follow. Reality programs could easily be edited back to an hour if they cut all the recaps and boring waffle, which no one is interested in.
If they can do this in other countries, they can do it here. A total lack of discipline.
The ABC news was overflowing with content lol. The ABC Sunday news is padded with 6 minutes of weather and 15 minutes of sport and a pre-taped magazine style story because there is nothing happening except the stage managed political releases in the Sunday papers. They extended it Sunday News because they used to show a 50 minute Grand Designs and then a 10 minute ABC filler (e.g. Dream Houses) during which half their audience switch over to 7 & 9 and their 8:30pm ratings plummeted.
Junctions do matter to Foxtel because they get 20+% of their revenue from ads. And they need to allow people to watch one show, and then select another show when it is finished. Foxtel stations with ads follow junctions more than any other network.
Junctions do matter because they allow viewer to watch a show on one network, and then a show on another network. The reason networks stagger is it…
Sucks that Seven couldn’t get off their ass to do one of these interviews. Their loss.
Thanks for the info David, very interesting
Junctions are irrelevant. We’ll watch shows when we want to watch them, whether it is by recording or catch up services or other means to actually get HD versions of shows.
Hope the networks are happy with lower numbers overall, who watches one channel a night? Remote controls have been around for decades. Old school thinking from our tv networks…
It’s not the junctions that are the issue, it is the continual over-runs and EPG not being updated. How can a programmer not know when a show is going to finish prior to transmission? The over-run is a mechanism to stop viewers switching over and this is what needs to be addressed by the industry. I watch very little FTA because you never know when a show is going to start or finish, and if I record anything you can guarantee it won’t record all of the show, so what is the point in watching FTA?
The arrogance of programme controllers – they don’t treat them with importance but it’s obvious from the comments here over the years that viewers valued them. Australia is also pretty much the only country in the world that can’t stick to a published schedule too.
Meanwhile in other news last week North Korea went digital – and all their main channels are only available in HD. Maybe one day Australia will catch up.
I’d still like commercial networks to start on the hour or half hour. I’m just glad ABC and SBS are generally consistent with their start times. I use the EPG and my PVR for commercial networks (but usually tape an extra 30+minutes to the end especially on channel 7)!
this is like the mice explaining to you that putting the cheese away really is no longer important
It’s a shame they think that way in my opinion, it allows for lazy and drawn out editing. The shows are rarely perfect in the extended edit, especially for shows like MKR and Masterchef where they love a good dramatic pause – a solid finishing would mean these shows would have to make good choices as to the content…
This is of course unless they’re just using ‘the perfect show’ as an excuse…
I refuse to watch live tv and ads if networks can’t start shows at consistent times. I havent even bothered with some of the good drama choices lately because they are on far too late.
I’d maybe try to believe some of the waffle they’re going on about if this was standard practice in other major television markets. However, as far as I am aware, clear junctions in the TV schedule still exist in places like the US and UK and they’re pretty strict at sticking to it. So, enjoy watching your audience numbers continue to plummet programmers. You’ve only got yourself to blame. Small kudos though for a noticeable improvement at sticking to the EPG times listed.
Exactly. Is this just an Aussie problem? Numbers will indeed continue to plummet. Just as orange is the new black, 750-800k is the new 1-1.1m viewers.
And 9pm is the new 8:30.
That should say ~9pm.
These people are absolute fools. It is these late start times which push non-reality TV viewers elsewhere where they can watch a show months in advance with no commericals. To say that getting the EPG is important to them, then why do I continually have to set my PVR twice. If I was to set a recording today for a show next Tuesday on 7 or 9, I would be setting it for 8:30, and by next Tuesday I would have had to go in, delete the timer and reset it for 8:51pm. Why should I bother, answer me that programmers- what is the drawcard for me going to your network? Speaking of 8:51, that is the time both 7&9 have been using lately in their updated EPGS. What the hell kinds of a start time is that? As I do not watch The Block, MKR, MC, IAC, Batchelor, or any Aus reality except TARAu, then I have no reason to ever watch FTA commerial when these shows I am after are readily available…
I’ve noticed since the official ratings have started Seven haven’t been updating their EPG to reflect correct start and finish times. Everything I have recorded on Seven I have been adding a minimum of 20 minutes because of this. It is bloody annoying to be honest.
First world problem: Cursed by Programmers…..of all the garbage that was put forward this is my favourite…”But if a MasterChef producer says ‘this is an amazing episode and it’s 5 minutes too long’ we’d be crazy to cut those 5 minutes out.”……how about just cutting out the Crappy recaps……durrh
I don’t see how it really benefits the networks though. These monster shows like MKR, The Block, The Voice – they over run them by 5 10 15 30 minutes – but it never seems to help the show starting at 845 or now 9pm. There is a massive switch off. Look at lat night with Gollipoli. 7 goes from, 1.6m for MKR to 900k for Winter. People are exhuasted after a 90 minuite edition of MKR and they switch off. The networks are getting a higher viewing figure for that 30 minutes from 830-9pm – but at the expense of launching a new show to a success. The networks are teaching viewers to turn off new shows – as they place so much importance on their monsters.
And look, they all fa. Voice, Masterchef, Block – they all fade after 4-5 seasons. Then what happens – you don’t have any other hits as you constantly bumped launching new shows to 9pm and 930. There is no breadth in the schedule. MKR,…