Ray Martin defends flag debate
Ray Martin has defended a 60 Minutes debate he has hosted on the question of changing the flag, timed to run this Sunday -ANZAC Day.
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Here we go again.
Ray Martin has defended a 60 Minutes debate he has hosted on the question of changing the flag, amid criticism it is poorly timed to run this Sunday -ANZAC Day.
John Vaughan, who represents the Australian National Flag Association, said he was upset at its “inappropriate” timing. In an article in North Shore Times, he accused Martin and 60 Minutes producers of assembling a group of notable anti-Australian flag speakers for the debate.
He took the opportunity to put forward his case on the question of the flag itself, saying, “Thousands of Australians have fought for the freedom that we enjoy under this flag. Thousands of sporting stars have won medals as it was proudly flown and many dinky-di Aussies are immensely proud of our national flag.
“The Union Jack is but one element, acknowledging the historical fact that our system of parliamentary government and the rule of law are derived from our colonial heritage. Another element of the Southern Cross is highly significant in Aboriginal mythology.”
Martin said he had attended a service every Anzac Day for 30 years and had a right to have an opinion.
“Clearly, the national flag is the most powerful symbol of a country’s brand, but there has been great confusion between identifying the Australian, New Zealand and UK flags. Hold up the New Zealand flag – you can’t tell the difference. Australians have fought under a whole range of flags – and the heavens didn’t fall when the Canadians changed their flag.”
But the question could indeed be one of timing if more parties condemn Nine for programming the episode for ANZAC Day. Presumably, the network fully intends to capitalise on such division.
ANZAC Day remains a day that generates passion, with annual debates about what should and shouldn’t open, whether we should have a public holiday, whether kids should march with Diggers, and the legalities of Two-Up. Generational division surrounding the day was also the setting for a classic 1970s Aussie play The One Day of the Year by Alan Seymour, which itself became the wonderful Nine sitcom The Last of the Australians.
We were arguing then. We’ll be arguing still. It’s kinda what we do.
Source: North Shore Times
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- Tagged with 60 Minutes, The Last of the Australians
61 Responses
Maybe ray needs a blood transfusion to get a bit of loyality into his system
I love our flag. Having said that though, I must consede that it could represent an offencive taunt to the original inhabitants of this land. Replacing the ‘Jack’ with the red,black and yellow ‘Aborignal flag’ would at least give recognition to the fact that Aboriginal nations were the commencement of human history here; not the English.
Poor old Ray, just another mindless lefty wallowing in self hate. To put it in the Australian vernacular Ray, go and get a wooly bull up yer.
As for his ex footballer side kick who wear’s the appropriately coloured, red snot rag for a head scarf what can I say. To put it nicely, he seems to be a victim of one too many stiff arm tackles.
Ray M artin has no respect for serving and ex-service people raising this debate on ANZAC Day. I agree with a host of others, on your bike Ray. We have had enough of you – Channel Nine do yourselves a favour, and sack him! And as for Peter Fitsimmons,I have in my posession some of his books; could you please advise his address so I can post his books back to him. I am an exserviceman who served his country for 31 years in the RAAF and was proud to serve my country under the Australian flag. Part of the problem is that the debate is dividing the nation and a divided nation is easy pickings particularly for terrorist groups. Wake up Australians before it is too late to save our great country from those who would divide us.
Put simply I have lived under the current flag for 62 years, I love MY flag regardless of what slant all the interest groups like to put on it and I Don’t want it changed.
Leave the present Australian flag the way it is. I am proud of the flag and the national anthem when they are displayed at international events, they represent the Australia we were born and grew up in and therefore they will always be part of the great land of ours called ‘Australia’.
Why on earth change what everyone recognises as our flag!!!!! i am a proud Australian, from a mixture of free and convict background. I do not feel like a poor cousin to England, I am happy with our Parliamentary system it works! I do not feel anything particularly emotional to England or the Queen (although would have a problem with Prince Charles becoming King), this still does not make me feel the need to be identified by a new flag!
If you chose to come here from another country (making us multicultural) why does this mean we need to change our flag? The USA, GB and many others don’t feel the need to change their flags because they are multicultural. (yes I know it’s all about the Union Jack but this is where our European roots are from) and doesn’t the Southern Cross reflect the region in which the first Australians live/d?
My goodness why not put all this energy into what is really important and potentially life changing and likely to make this a better country!!! ie: integrating nationalities, rather than the gradual take over of suburbs by one nationality, (this doesn’t mean you have to loose your identity), encouraging and making it financially possible for tradesman to employ apprentices (so we overcome our shortages in the trades), ditto in medicine wtih training new Australian doctors, make it possible for farmers to stay on profitable farms so we can have access to locally grown produce! These more fruitful, positive ways to be a better Australia.
I love our flag just as it is and always has been. Why can’t Ray Martin debate something crucial to Australia, like protecting our boarders from illegal migrants and getting rid of the billions wasted on having an excessive level of over government with the state governments.
How dare you Ray Martin, bring this up today. I have lost relatives in the wars, my Grandfather was a war correspondant in WW2, and i know peolpe who are serving in the forces today. Today is for them, not you.
I embrace our multi-cultural society, but who are we becoming. Are we turning out back on our history? Like it or not, that flag is still a part of our country. Leave it alone.
I believe that the australian flag should remain, we don’t want a mixed Koori flag they have their own, all the world countries have their own flag, we don;t want their flags to be mixed into ours, if you want to change a flag go live in another country, and stop being hypocrites.
Jack Daniels Yes!!!
Union Jack No!!!
Shame on you Ray MArtin, Everyone is entitled to thier opinion but your timing smacks first and foremost at total disresprect to our ANZACS and secondly of a failing celeb who wants airtime.
Most of all shame on Channel 9 for giving it airtime. How dare you disrepect our heroes.
Ray Martin can go stand on top of Ayers Rock and tell the world the changes he wants for the Aboriginal Flag,but leave our Aussie flag alone.Martin is just a failing thrillseeker who needs a boost,its sad when you get to that stage.
Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a democracy and a programme like this can go to air on Anzac Day! Hang your heads, programme department at Nine, that you would schedule this on this of all days. Just remember why and how we are a democracy. Long Live the Australian Flag as it flies proudly to-day.
I believe our flag is a true representation of what we were, are and will be. It is a great design. Ray Martin is using his loud and public voice to overwhelm all others, and push the whole Nation in his direction. We see no problem with Black Americans having pride in their African heritage. Whether his highness, Ray Martin likes it or not, we came originally from a British background (check the names in the telephone directory) we are now truly independent and our Flag tells a short story about our whole history, and where we are now, free states under the Southern Cross.
It is entirely different from the Union Jack, and cannot be mistaken. Why are some Australians so ashamed to have any heritage, what are we to do, change our flag every 5 years or so to represent the current ethnic mix and flavour of the day? Pity people with a loud voice, and unlimited access to the media, can have so much sway over other Australians. Many decent brave and heroic Australians have given their lives to build this Nation, I am sure most were very proud to se the Australian Flag raised. The flag debate could only happen in Australia, any risks to Ray Martin were for self interest entirely, to further his career as a journalist, whilst our brave soldiers were risking their lives fighting under our flag, for freedom of others in Vietnam, Ray Martin was cutting his teeth as a Journalist reporting on the riots.
My Father died for that flag which represents thousands who died for those spoilt morons who really have no understanding how much this means to so many I am proud to be Australian and a baby Boomer whose chiildren have had it so good and just got everything given to them and never had to fight for anything .Channel nine does it again they ruined the olympics with Eddie Mc Guire and here we go again Channel nine the only way to protest is not to watch News readers and Journalists are just out to put themselves up as Idols and how shallow is that
Lest we forget
Geoff Leonard’s notion that the present flag conveys Australia as a British possession and that we are subservient to the UK is merely an interpretation he chooses to put on it. Other suggestions that it reflects ‘colonialism’ is equally bunkum – again, the interpretation of one or a few. Let’s dispense with the easy bits first: the Southern Cross is relevant (oh, no – the ‘cross’ as Christian connotations so maybe that should go!). What about the Federation Star. Hmmm maybe that has some relevance?. Indeed it does. It conveys our progress from a group of colonies (British, hence the Union flag) to the Federation of Australia (as it is now) and under the Souther Cross, always, from the earliest Aborigibal settlement, to the European settlement to the present Federation of Australia.
Leave the flag alone. Want change? Change from Channel 9. Want to dump something? Dump Ray – who has no real interest in the flag other than a vehicle for his own self-seeking publicity. Long after Aussies have forgotten who or what Ray Martin was, the present flag will prevail.
One can’t have an objective debate about the suitability, or otherwise, of our current national flag without a basic understanding of the rules of vexillology.
Under these rules the present design of our national flag conveys the erroneous message that Australia is either:
(1) a British possession
or (2) is subservient to the United Kingdom
Clearly, neither is correct!
Gee Ray cant stay out of the spotlight,l was hoping never to hear of him again.Go off into sunset Ray
Raymond, we dont need more fodder for the current Federal Government. If the majority dont want a new flag (as previously voted on) Crudd will be onto it and throw money at it to change it.
I agree with a previous blogger when I see that amount of patriotism (sorry American talk) on and around Australia Day. I have children between 23 & 8 and they will always wear something with a Current Aussie flag on it. I was out at Penrith this year and could not ‘see the trees’ because of the flags, shirts and beach towels with the Current Aussie flag on it.
In closing I leave you all with one thought. If we changed the flag (God forbid) imagine the deabates, arguments and general upheaval in the country as I know a fact that no one will agree to a Flag solution. So leave it alone.
I didn’t see Canada disappear up its own fundus when it moved from a flag that was by heraldic definition an “ensign defaced” to its rather nice Maple Leaf?
PS: Armies only march under flags in Hollywood. In the real world army units fight under their regimental colours and guidons.
Maybe 20 /25 yrs ago, they would have had a chance of changing the flag. But that boat has sailed. The current flag is growing more popular every year. 25 years ago you hardly saw anyone wave the Aussie flag around, even on Aus day.
But now you can’t swing a cat around without hitting someone carrying the Aussie flag. And what are we going to change it to? If it has a kangaroo on it. I will personally burn every single one i can get my hands on. Leave it has it is. Its the most impressive looking flag in the world. It looks as if it has meaning, without the dorky symbolisms of most flags And there aren;t too many flags out there that can claim that
People who say that the old diggers never fought under that flag are idiots. They need to go google some pics. I’ve seen plenty of pics of diggers in ww1&2 who were standing under that flag. @ Andrew. I can’t remember one tv based debate yet that has not been hosted or chaired by biased people.
“Hold up the New Zealand flag – you can’t tell the difference”.
If Ray Martin can’t tell the difference between the Australian and New Zealand flag, then he has gone way down in my estimation. It’s like saying I can’t tell the difference between him and George Negus.
We only fought under the Aussie flag once and that was in Vietnam. Every other war and or peace keeping missing has been under the jusrisdiction of the Brits or the United Nations.
This is why we need a debate, to clear the misinformation from facts.
I have no issue with the debate itself. However, screening it on ANZAC Day is a disgraceful decision. So many of our “diggers” signed up to fight for the honour of our flag. They were patriotic, the flag gave them a symbol to remind them what they were fighting for. I’m a History teacher, my grandfather was a POW in Changi, and my husband’s grandmother was a refugee following WWII from Poland and the work camps. My relatives, and so many others, find the flag a sacred symbol that reminds them of the sacrifice that was made or the people that were their saviour. On our possibly most sacred of days, this debate does not need to be screened.
Sorry, I’ll get off my (vaguely) liberal soapbox (and by liberal, I don’t mean the secific political party – I meant the opposite to conservative). But it is something I feel very strongly about.